MR. SHACKELFORD AND HIS CAREER PATH

EnviroEducation.com: Tell us about your career plans. Why do you want to become involved professionally in the environmental sector?

After I finish my undergraduate degree from Northern Arizona University in Physical Geography, I want to go on to law school and become an environmental lawyer. I hope to work for a non-profit organization, but I might accept an opportunity to work with a private firm. I want to be an environmental lawyer because I want people to be held responsible in their negligence toward the environment, which is here for all of us to enjoy. There are places in this country that need to be set aside for all to enjoy in the present and for the future. And yet there are places in this country that need to be used - but in a responsible manner with proper management that is not influenced by special interest.

You've already worked as a volunteer in the environmental sector for many years. Tell us what you've done and how that work has influenced you.

I have volunteered at so many places and have done some wonderful things. The people I have met and the wonderful joy of helping someone or something gives volunteer work such meaning. When I volunteered at the Orange County Bird of Prey Center in Southern California, it felt so rewarding to see the raptor slowly recover and have a second chance. Sure, cleaning the cages out was not my idea of fun, but to be that close to something beautiful makes it worthwhile.

I also volunteered out at a county park in southern California - the days were long doing trail maintenance and removing non-native plants, but it was rewarding to see people enjoy the trails and to see the native plants start to come back. There were many long, hard hours, and then there were some hours, which I will never forget. I think the work I have done over the years has influenced my views on society and how people look at the environment. It has made me appreciate the people who do volunteer work and how dedicated they are. These people play a very important role in the process of preservation, conservation and education of the environment.

Do you have a personal environmental philosophy?

My philosophy is that the environment and the beautiful places of this fine country are not mine, but everyone's. For all of us to enjoy them, we must hold the people who manage them responsible for what takes place and hold them accountable to not be influenced by special interests.

My other philosophy is kind of a twist on what Edward Abbey once said: If we, as Americans, have a right to bear arms and protect our households from outside threats, then why do we turn right around and steal the environment, which means a lot to those who call it home and cannot protect it.

What has been your biggest accomplishment to date? What do you aspire to accomplish in your career?

My biggest environmental accomplishment has to be catching the "Extinct Steelhead Trout" in Southern California back in 1999. This trout was said by the government to be extinct, yet I caught one and, from then on, the California Department of Fish and Game has found others in the same creek. This creek is threatened by sprawl and a toll road, and this Steelhead Trout discovery has caused many headaches for developers in Southern California. I claim this to be my biggest victory.

Some other accomplishments include protesting calmly over the sale of old growth lumber at a local department store and a threatened lawsuit I made up from a phantom law firm against the homeowners' association where my parents lived. The lawsuit was in regard to illegal waste dumping into street drains. It was clearly a violation of the Clean Water Act, and some public health issues, and it was quickly addressed when the fake lawsuit was presented by fax and mail by the phantom law firm I made up.

For my career, there are some good environmental law firms out there, and they are very underrated for what they have done for America. I hope to be the voice of the environment and its residents so that we may all enjoy it!

Do you really think that you can change some of views and laws of this country with respect to the environment?

I ponder this question a lot. I have a friend who is an attorney for the Natural Resource Defense Council and he told me this. He loves what he does and whom he works for. You can't beat that. Plus on some days his bonus is preserving a place where he and his son could go fishing on the weekends or other people may enjoy it in the future. On the days you loose to the "big boys," you remember what you're fighting for and try it again - but you also have to know that this world is not fair, and you just have to make the best of it and move on.

THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROGRAM

Tell us about your environmental education so far. What have you liked and disliked about it? What is your school and your major?

At NAU, I'm an undergrad seeking a Bachelor of Science in Physical Geography and my minor in Environmental Studies is already completed.

The education I have received has been great. Saddleback College was great because of the professors had a love for what they were teaching. The same goes for NAU. A place like Flagstaff, Arizona, can only motivate you further to love and care for the environment. Some of the most beautiful country in America is just outside your classroom window.

The only thing I have regrets about is the guidance I received at Saddleback. There were no specific certificates or areas for environmental science - although I believe that some certificate programs are now offered, which is great because the faculty is dedicated to the students! But the guidance you may want to seek from your professors.

What influenced you to transfer from Saddleback? What made NAU's program most attractive to you when you were choosing a school?

Southern California, as we all know, is one big sprawl monster. I wanted to get out of there and go back to green trees and to a place where people loved and appreciated the environment. NAU was that place. The scenery and the geographical setting are hard to beat. From Flagstaff, you can visit many wonders of the world on the weekends and learn about so many different things outside the classroom, instead of from a textbook. The environmental studies program is great and the geography program is small which gives the students all of the attention that we need. The guidance is par - not great but average - but everyone is willing to help you, no matter what it might be.

What are your long-term and short-term goals that have guided you through your environmental education?

I don't know if I had one specific goal or not, other than getting my college degree in a physical science. One of my goals was to always be active and vocal about the love I have for the environment. When I transferred to NAU, I wanted to acquire as much knowledge as possible about the environment. Taking watershed management classes and environmental studies classes has helped me become more focused on the goal I now want to achieve, which is environment law.

I believe if you are passionate about the environment, no matter what area you want to go into, you should acquire knowledge from all aspects of the environmental world. This is why I'm going after a Physical Geography degree instead of Environmental Science degree. I have taken all the Environmental Studies classes, and they were great, but I wanted more physical science where I could understand the physical aspect of the environment. I think it has helped me advance my understanding on how complex the environment is and how things really work. Advice from professors and close professional friends who work in the environmental field has also help guided my education a great deal.

How much time do you spend in the field? What has been the most memorable experience while doing your fieldwork?

The first semester, I did not spend that much time in the field and that was probably because of the classes I had. This past semester I was out in the field a lot. I would say I was out in the field when the weather was good at least eight hours a week. I had several classes, which required me to be out a lot.

The most memorable experience was doing a microclimate study with some other students at a nearby Arboretum in Flagstaff. We had to change the batteries out for our instruments every four hours for forty-eight hours straight. So I got the night shift and sitting out in this meadow at 2 a.m. with just the grass humming a fine tune with the wind and the stars ablaze above was just a feeling of joy that God above has created these beautiful things for all of us.

Does NAU help students with job placement? If so, how do they do it, and how do you think they'll be able to help you?

NAU has a great pride in helping their students find jobs prior to graduation. The staff updates the job placement board whenever a new one comes up. NAU also has a lot of ties with companies for internships and job placement. Also, the guidance counselor in the school I chose is up-to-date on the jobs available for your specific major, and the professors know a lot of people and ways to find jobs, so they to lend a hand.

I think it should help me because my professors or guidance counselors tell me what the outside world requires and this helps my decision on taking the right classes. I would hope this will help when me when the time comes to meet the requirements besides the degree.

How active have you been on and off campus with student and/or community organizations? What have you done beyond the curriculum and how do you expect it will further your career?

I have not been really active off campus due to the lack of time. I try to voice my opinion locally on my dorm room door. I did get a little involved in Free the Planet, an environmental organization on campus. There are plenty to choose from at NAU. Beyond the classroom, I do a lot a recreation outdoors - anything from snowboarding to climbing. I think this helps me to get inspired about my goal in life by seeing and enjoying the environment first-hand, thus giving me a stronger passion to help preserve the environment.

EDUCATION INFORMATION & ADVICE

What advice can you give about "choosing the right school" to prospective students thinking about a career in an environmental field? What are some of the most important factors to consider?

In terms of choosing the right school:

• Be honest with yourself - do what ever it takes to go to the school you want.
• Choose a school that gives you some freedom but also has accountability.
• Geographical location can determine a lot, such as going home to get some cash or do laundry or to be close to opportunities that relate to what you like to do.
• Don't go to a school that has your major just because it has your major - find a school in a place you want to go and has your major. There you can broaden your horizons and gain a better understanding of life.
• Consider what a school can do for you in terms of making yourself attractive for employment when you graduate. Listen, you are the one paying the ridiculous amounts of tuition money, like myself, so go where you can get the best of the best!! Get your money's worth and have fun doing it!
• Consider the climate - here in Flagstaff it snows a lot and is cold most of the winter. It took some adjustment for me, but some go to places they are more comfortable in. So choose that college you feel comfortable in, get the most out of the college and have fun outside the classroom as well!

Looking back now, are you satisfied with the choices you've made and the education you're receiving? Why or why not?

I'm satisfied with the choices I have made. I'm glad for the people who I have met, worked with and had long conversations with. The best thing that ever happened to me was meeting Lee Wiain, an inspirational professor at Saddleback College who sparked the fire within. I love the education I'm receiving at NAU. The professors are great and have a love for the topics they teach. The city of Flagstaff is tremendous; it's a great place to live and achieve an education.

How important is it for a school's faculty to have "real-world" experience and credentials?

I think it's huge! Most of, perhaps 95%, of the faculty in the school department I'm in, here at NAU have PhD level education and had a job in the field they teach about. It gives me more respect for someone who has been through what we are learning about. They have achieved and love what they have accomplished. So now, they are teaching us to do the same thing they did with the experience and knowledge they have gained. It can be a little intimidating when you first hand in that paper, but they are there to help you succeed in the classroom because they know the demands of the outside world.

How much difference does a good teacher make? Tell us about one good and one bad experience that you've had.

Well, there have been plenty of good ones and one or two bad ones. One of the good experiences as mentioned was Lee Wiain. He was a professor at Saddleback College, who he taught Environmental Studies. I took that class and from then on I have been on fire for the environment. He took the time to help me get involved and to understand the issues. I still have a friendship with him and I seek his opinions, ideas and knowledge when I need it.

Hmmm… the bad experience? Well, I think it would have to be a Restoration class I took while at Saddleback College. This class was the first time they offered it, so it was fly-by-night to begin with. It went way out of line and the education didn't exist, except for some of the fieldwork. Since then, Saddleback has hired a new professor, and a certificate is offered in this highly valuable and employable aspect of environmental science.

What should students try to get out of their environmental education?

Get as much knowledge as possible. Try to obtain an understanding about the complex environment we live in. Take classes in everything from Ecology to Meteorology. Having a better understanding of the environment will help you in the environmental field you chose. Remember to get your tuition's worth, in terms of seeking an education and the other possibilities that the college can offer. Work hard and have fun doing it.

Do you have any tips about choosing the right teachers and coursework? How important are these kinds of decisions?

These decisions are huge since you are paying the tuition, and you don't want to be in college all of your life. Ask around and be open.

• I would say listen to your friends, but don't take their word to the core
• Talk to other professors about the classes you want to take and whom you are taking them with - they will help most all the time in some way or another.
• Try your guidance counselor, if they are really plugged into your program and know the faculty; you may have just to pry a little.

Based on what you hear in the industry, what do you think are the most respected college and university environmental programs? Do you think it makes a difference to graduate from a prestigious school?

From what I hear, some of the best environmental programs in the country are small schools. I know Humboldt State University is a great one, along with Southern Utah University. Some of the big schools like the University of Washington have great environmental programs.

It all comes down to where you can gain the most experience and education as possible in a place that you like. Plus, the schools should have plenty of things to offer outside the classroom that meet your needs.

Big school, small school - it doesn't really matter. What matters to the industry is that you have your degree, what you did, and what you took to obtain it.

What is one of the biggest keys or factors in terms of gaining or maintaining a good education?

The biggest key in getting a good education is the passion that comes from within toward the goal that you have set forward. Also guidance is very key. The schools usually suck at this and do a poor attempt, so talk to professionals and to your professors who know what matters in your education.

CLOSING REMARKS

Is there anything else you can tell us about yourself, your education, your career, or the profession that would be interesting or helpful to others aspiring to enter the field?

Be true and honest with yourself. Don't try to change the world in one year. You will eventually get your chance. Enjoy every bit of college and learning about the wonderful environment we have and shall have, if we continue to show our love for it. Enjoy the friendships, relationships, backpacking trips, sunrises, sunsets, the remarkable creations of the environment and how complex it is! Dive in and enjoy, for if you have the passion for the environment, like I do, you will be successful as long as you're honest and reasonable.

If you have any questions for Mr. Shackelford related to his environmental education, his work in the field and/or this interview, please contact him directly at trs7@dana.ucc.nau.edu.

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EDITOR'S NOTE: For more information about the educational and career outlook for Geography majors, click here; for more information about the educational and career outlook for Environmental Law majors, click here.